#46582: "ELO adaptation to the number of players is screwed badly"
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# | Status | Votes | Game | Type | Title | Last update |
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Detailne kirjeldus
• Kui näed ekraanil veateadet, kopeeri see siia.
n/a• Kirjelda, mida sa soovisid teha, mida sa tegid ja mis juhtus
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Google Chrome v91
• Palun kopeeri/kleebi kuvatud tekst inglise keeles, mitte sinu oma keeles. Kui sul on sellest veast ekraanipilt (hea tava), saad kasutada Imgur.com selle üleslaadimiseks ja lingi siia kopeerida.
n/a• Kas see tekst on kättesaadav tõlkesüsteemis ? Kui jah, kas see on tõlgitud rohkem kui 24 tundi tagasi?
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Google Chrome v91
• Palun selgita oma ettepanekut täpselt ja lühidalt, et oleks võimalikult lihtne mõista, mida silmas pead.
n/a• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Google Chrome v91
• Mis oli ekraanil, kui sind blokeeriti? (Tühi ekraan? Osa mänguliidesest? Veateade?)
n/a• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Google Chrome v91
• Millist osa BGA kohandamisest ei järgitud
n/a• Kas reeglite rikkumist on mängu taasesitusel näha? Kui jah, siis mitmendal käigul?
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Google Chrome v91
• Milline oli mängu tegevus, mida tahtsid sooritada?
n/a• Mida püüdsid teha, et seda mängu tegevust käivitada?
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• Mis juhtus, kui seda proovisite (veateade, mängu olekuriba teade, ...)?
• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Google Chrome v91
• Millises mängu etapis esines probleem (Mis oli selle mänguetapi instruktsioon)?
n/a• Mis juhtus, kui proovisite sooritada seda mängu käiku (veateade, mängu olekuriba sõnum, ...)?
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Google Chrome v91
• Kirjelda kuvamise probleemi. Kui sul on sellest veast ekraanipilt (hea tava), saad kasutada Imgur.com selle üleslaadimiseks ja lingi siia kopeerida.
n/a• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Google Chrome v91
• Palun kopeeri/kleebi kuvatud tekst inglise keeles, mitte sinu oma keeles. Kui sul on sellest veast ekraanipilt (hea tava), saad kasutada Imgur.com selle üleslaadimiseks ja lingi siia kopeerida.
n/a• Kas see tekst on kättesaadav tõlkesüsteemis ? Kui jah, kas see on tõlgitud rohkem kui 24 tundi tagasi?
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Google Chrome v91
• Palun selgita oma ettepanekut täpselt ja lühidalt, et oleks võimalikult lihtne mõista, mida silmas pead.
n/a• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Google Chrome v91
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- Kui sul on sellest veast ekraanipilt (hea tava), saad kasutada Imgur.com selle üleslaadimiseks ja lingi siia kopeerida.