#158892: "Randal's ability implemented incorrectly, allows Plains Safeguard while in adjacent regions"
Mille kohta see veateade on?
Mis juhtus? Palun vali alt
Mis juhtus? Palun vali alt
Palun kontrolli, kas samal teemal on juba aruanne olemas
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Detailne kirjeldus
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• Kui näed ekraanil veateadet, kopeeri see siia.
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. -
• Kirjelda, mida sa soovisid teha, mida sa tegid ja mis juhtus
Yes, starting from the first instant of the game (move 3 in the log, I was able to defend the Plains and Forest while I am in the Capital City), and throughout the game multiple times, if I am in any region adjacent to the Plains, I am able to defend both adjacent regions during enemy turns.
• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Google Chrome v132
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• Palun kopeeri/kleebi kuvatud tekst inglise keeles, mitte sinu oma keeles. Kui sul on sellest veast ekraanipilt (hea tava), saad kasutada Imgur.com selle üleslaadimiseks ja lingi siia kopeerida.
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. -
• Kas see tekst on kättesaadav tõlkesüsteemis ? Kui jah, kas see on tõlgitud rohkem kui 24 tundi tagasi?
Yes, starting from the first instant of the game (move 3 in the log, I was able to defend the Plains and Forest while I am in the Capital City), and throughout the game multiple times, if I am in any region adjacent to the Plains, I am able to defend both adjacent regions during enemy turns.
• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Google Chrome v132
-
• Palun selgita oma ettepanekut täpselt ja lühidalt, et oleks võimalikult lihtne mõista, mida silmas pead.
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. • mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Google Chrome v132
-
• Mis oli ekraanil, kui sind blokeeriti? (Tühi ekraan? Osa mänguliidesest? Veateade?)
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. • mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Google Chrome v132
-
• Millist osa BGA kohandamisest ei järgitud
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. -
• Kas reeglite rikkumist on mängu taasesitusel näha? Kui jah, siis mitmendal käigul?
Yes, starting from the first instant of the game (move 3 in the log, I was able to defend the Plains and Forest while I am in the Capital City), and throughout the game multiple times, if I am in any region adjacent to the Plains, I am able to defend both adjacent regions during enemy turns.
• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Google Chrome v132
-
• Milline oli mängu tegevus, mida tahtsid sooritada?
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. -
• Mida püüdsid teha, et seda mängu tegevust käivitada?
Yes, starting from the first instant of the game (move 3 in the log, I was able to defend the Plains and Forest while I am in the Capital City), and throughout the game multiple times, if I am in any region adjacent to the Plains, I am able to defend both adjacent regions during enemy turns.
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• Mis juhtus, kui seda proovisite (veateade, mängu olekuriba teade, ...)?
• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Google Chrome v132
-
• Millises mängu etapis esines probleem (Mis oli selle mänguetapi instruktsioon)?
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. -
• Mis juhtus, kui proovisite sooritada seda mängu käiku (veateade, mängu olekuriba sõnum, ...)?
Yes, starting from the first instant of the game (move 3 in the log, I was able to defend the Plains and Forest while I am in the Capital City), and throughout the game multiple times, if I am in any region adjacent to the Plains, I am able to defend both adjacent regions during enemy turns.
• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Google Chrome v132
-
• Kirjelda kuvamise probleemi. Kui sul on sellest veast ekraanipilt (hea tava), saad kasutada Imgur.com selle üleslaadimiseks ja lingi siia kopeerida.
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. • mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Google Chrome v132
-
• Palun kopeeri/kleebi kuvatud tekst inglise keeles, mitte sinu oma keeles. Kui sul on sellest veast ekraanipilt (hea tava), saad kasutada Imgur.com selle üleslaadimiseks ja lingi siia kopeerida.
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. -
• Kas see tekst on kättesaadav tõlkesüsteemis ? Kui jah, kas see on tõlgitud rohkem kui 24 tundi tagasi?
Yes, starting from the first instant of the game (move 3 in the log, I was able to defend the Plains and Forest while I am in the Capital City), and throughout the game multiple times, if I am in any region adjacent to the Plains, I am able to defend both adjacent regions during enemy turns.
• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Google Chrome v132
-
• Palun selgita oma ettepanekut täpselt ja lühidalt, et oleks võimalikult lihtne mõista, mida silmas pead.
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. • mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Google Chrome v132
Aruande ajalugu
Right now it works as intended by me. Randal copies all the abilities around him from other Defenders and from other Regions.
But you are right with wording of the card: "Your Turn" and "Use abilities".
I think I will get other reports about Randals ability not working, when I exclude specific abilities from beeing copied. Right now it feels the the most reports are for Randal anyway.
When I exclude the Safeguard Ability from the Plains Region, I should probably exclude some more abilities:
- Um'Taks Berserk: Use Sacrifice multiple times -> This is not an ability that is actively "used". So it would not match the "Use abilities" wording.
- Adelphos Transport: move another Defender together with you -> also passive ability
- Ezru Courage: Reduce Threat at the start of your Turn -> yes "Your Turn", bit again passive abilit. You do not "use the ability".
- Laishom Command: When you draw your Defender card -> its not your turn and its not an ability to use.
- Pteryx Maneuver: When you defend -> also a "defend" effect like the Plains Safeguard.
- Oryk Matyr: after defending lose HP instead of defending player -> its not your turn and its not an ability to use.
In case Randal plays together with only the characters mentioned above, he can not copy anything from the Defenders and is kind of useless. I do not know if copying Region abilities of nearby Regions is still enough to let Randal be an useful character.
But I am still interested in your opinion! (Implementing a fix for this is not a big deal)
I think there's certainly room for debate on what "Use abilities" exactly means, and there can be a spectrum of reasonable interpretations. But I believe the "On your turn" phrase is much more clear cut, so I would suggest limiting the scope of this round of potential changes to focusing on this criteria, and see what the downstream impact is.
I believe the Plains (Safeguard) ability is the only one from the regions that falls under this category, and implementation-wise, I suspect the programming logic for the Plains (Safeguard) could be essentially identical to the Desert (Mirage). If this were the only change you made, that could be a reasonable choice.
However, if you decide you want to consider "On your turn" regarding copying other Defenders' abilities, here are my thoughts (again I'm ignoring the active/passive issue for this ticket):
- Ezru Courage: Agreed that is your turn, therefore enable/disable it based on your active/passive decision.
- Laishom Command: My interpretation is that "As soon as your Defender card is drawn", it is already your turn, because the end of that ability says "...and then continue your turn", not "...and then start your turn". Therefore enable/disable it based on your active/passive decision.
- Lealith Retribution: Not your turn when you would defend, so would never apply
- Oryk Martyr: Not your turn when your teammate would defend, so would never apply
- Oryk Strong: Can be during your turn, Active/passive decision
- Um'Tak Berserk: During your turn, Active/passive decision
- Adelphos: Both abilities are during your turn, both are active/passive decision
- Harpier: Cleave is clearly during your turn and active, Iron Hide is defend, so would never apply
- Pteryx Maneuver: Defend, so would never apply
The other champions I didn't mention have abilities clearly during your turn and active.
Finally, regarding your concern about Randal still being useful if some abilities are excluded, I would say that even if NONE of the other Defenders' abilities were available to Randal and if the Safeguard ability were only available while ON the Plains, I believe Randal is by far the most overpowered Defender, because his action economy is incredible (when you can move less, you can do way more things) and even provides compounding value when the Coast is on the Dispatch side. For example I'm currently in a game with Coast (Dispatch) on the left and Forest (Enchant) on the right, and I essentially never need to leave the Capital City, because I can Dispatch my teammate and/or Enchant, and automatically heal to full so I can Sacrifice freely. I'm not only saving my own actions but also my teammate's. The game is on highest difficulty and I expect to tackle it very easily.
Let me know your thoughts and what you decide!
I think you persuaded me when you just focus on the "your turn" aspect of the wording. Because Use Ability is not defined very well.
Just in case you are interested: The implementation is straight forward. I will mark all the applicable abilities as "in-your-turn"-abilities and Randal will only copy these.
- Safeguard
- IronHide
- Maneuver
- Martyr
- Retribution
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