#108927: "Make standard (merciless) scoring method optional"
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Detailne kirjeldus
• Kui näed ekraanil veateadet, kopeeri see siia.
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• Kirjelda, mida sa soovisid teha, mida sa tegid ja mis juhtus
• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Mozilla v5
• Palun kopeeri/kleebi kuvatud tekst inglise keeles, mitte sinu oma keeles. Kui sul on sellest veast ekraanipilt (hea tava), saad kasutada Imgur.com selle üleslaadimiseks ja lingi siia kopeerida.
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• Kas see tekst on kättesaadav tõlkesüsteemis ? Kui jah, kas see on tõlgitud rohkem kui 24 tundi tagasi?
• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Mozilla v5
• Palun selgita oma ettepanekut täpselt ja lühidalt, et oleks võimalikult lihtne mõista, mida silmas pead.
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Mozilla v5
• Mis oli ekraanil, kui sind blokeeriti? (Tühi ekraan? Osa mänguliidesest? Veateade?)
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Mozilla v5
• Millist osa BGA kohandamisest ei järgitud
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• Kas reeglite rikkumist on mängu taasesitusel näha? Kui jah, siis mitmendal käigul?
• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Mozilla v5
• Milline oli mängu tegevus, mida tahtsid sooritada?
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• Mida püüdsid teha, et seda mängu tegevust käivitada?
• Mis juhtus, kui seda proovisite (veateade, mängu olekuriba teade, ...)?
• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Mozilla v5
• Millises mängu etapis esines probleem (Mis oli selle mänguetapi instruktsioon)?
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• Mis juhtus, kui proovisite sooritada seda mängu käiku (veateade, mängu olekuriba sõnum, ...)?
• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Mozilla v5
• Kirjelda kuvamise probleemi. Kui sul on sellest veast ekraanipilt (hea tava), saad kasutada Imgur.com selle üleslaadimiseks ja lingi siia kopeerida.
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Mozilla v5
• Palun kopeeri/kleebi kuvatud tekst inglise keeles, mitte sinu oma keeles. Kui sul on sellest veast ekraanipilt (hea tava), saad kasutada Imgur.com selle üleslaadimiseks ja lingi siia kopeerida.
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• Kas see tekst on kättesaadav tõlkesüsteemis ? Kui jah, kas see on tõlgitud rohkem kui 24 tundi tagasi?
• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Mozilla v5
• Palun selgita oma ettepanekut täpselt ja lühidalt, et oleks võimalikult lihtne mõista, mida silmas pead.
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• mis on sinu veebilehitseja?
Mozilla v5
Aruande ajalugu
In the game above, in round 2, I had 2 cards left and stopped the round. Because I was undercut and my score became negative, the game ended. I went from a tie for 2nd to losing the game immediately. -40 points is not a large deficit to overcome in Hoola and a player can climb back up the leaderboard.
I've played Hoola a lot before this new rule was implemented. Previously a player was incentivized to stop a round early, even with the existing risk of being undercut. After implementation of the new rule, there is a high risk of losing without a chance for a comeback. I may not risk stopping a round for fear of an early game end. Stopping early was a strategic choice and the fundamentals of that decision have changed.
Please reconsider this rule change.
Thank you,
another Hoola lover
I borrowed the English term from other games with a similar rule (to avoid using gambling words).
This rule is implemented to support short length 2/3 player games which consititute >90% of all BGA Hoola games.
In this setting, the comeback is practically impossible when the last player has already lost >200 points and the leader plays defensively.
However, I admit the initial setting of 200 points didn't consider games with more players/more multipliers/longer game length option, so I opted to adjust the initial points instead.
From now on, new games will start with more points.
For example, a 4 players/8 rounds/Battle Hoola rule set game will start with 1600 points, instead of 200.
I think this is a good compromise.
Happy new year!
Lisa midagi sellele raportile
- Teine laua ID / käigu ID
- Kas F5 lahendas probleemi?
- Kas probleem esines mitmel korral? Igal korral?
- Kui sul on sellest veast ekraanipilt (hea tava), saad kasutada Imgur.com selle üleslaadimiseks ja lingi siia kopeerida.